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October 20, 2003

Comments

Don Maxwell

Read also on the internet the truth about the Pro Solution "scam" - a
multi-million dollar scam to sell harmless (and ineffective herbs) via agents and spamming e-mails.

As someone else says elsewhere: why aren't these magic pills sold in any real places? Just ask yourself why not? You can get alternative remedies in some real shops - but the penis pills do not evenfind their way into alternative medicine shops! So they must be really usless! Can't you understand when you are being ripped off? They pray on a natural male worry and then suck money from people who will not complain because they are shy. I shall say that in theory exercising the penis may well help - but "penis pills" NEVER - thank goodness governments are moving in to stop them making stupid claims (any other so-called drug, any product indeed, has to conform to strict guidelines regarding its claims - that's why penis pill manufacturers are difficult to get hold of - they are businessmen/clever con merchants. Just do a search on the internet and see the truth!

Well, if we can read it on the internet, why don't you give us some links?

Don Mawell

Gullable or stooge? - simple to search on the internet - no other "problem" (=penis pills scam) is more easily found. If you can't find it, then you are more gullable than I thought!

Don Maxwell

Example:

http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,59907,00.html

Don't believe a word of this spam scam here - penis pills can NEVER work - certainly not supplied over the internet! Just think - wouldn't the drugs companies just love a product that works such as this?! Why aren't they making $$$$ out of it? - DO NOT BUY PENIS PILLS - you are being ripped off!

John Dobbs

Well said! This site is obviously part of the scam. DONT BUY PENIS PILLS - however small you think you are - it is a rip off!

Trevor G.

Chalk, a few herbs and a clever marketing spam assault! Everyone knows they (the pills) are a load of rubbish.

Try finding out who makes them and sells them and find out what's in these pills - it's all like something out of the 19th century fairground - "cure all ills" certain sad people believed it then - and a few will believe it now - just think! I don't know why the two writers above bother pointing this out - it's so obvious. If these pills are so good why do their sellers hide away and send spam?! Duh! Obvious to anybody!

John Dobbs

The claims made by the sponsors here are CRIMINAL - it is only a matter of time before they are caught and brought before the courts - and so they should. If you worry about your penis - even if you have a really tiny one - think of this: unless you have a really serious medical condition known as "micro penis" neither medical science or anyone else (least of all people who make $$$ sending spam) can really make it that much bigger. Wouldn't be best just to accept that instead of believing all this prseudo-scientific spam-led garbage? Big penis/small penis - men have crap or good sex lives. Think about that no-hopers! Women

John Dobbs

sorry pressed "post" too early - certain women I suppose might have a thing about penis size - most do not! Look at this way - I don't like big breasts on a woman (but if they have big breasts and they a nice person, no problem!) - women are just the same. If you are crap in bed it does not matter to them whether you are huge or tiny - you are still crap. You could be tiny and they still want you - or they don't - so even if these crappy pills worked (and IF suggests there might be a possibility - which is NOT what I suggest - there is fact NO possibility that they work.) you could still have a useless sexlife. Discussion here would be more usefully spent on such themes than on these bogus pills (sold by spammers).

Peter Mason

At here are the igredients (from a previous post here) of one of the penis pills - note the supposed technical language - but see my comments regarding what the stuff actually is:


L-arginine
L-Arginine is a naturally occurring amino acid, one of the "Semi-essential" amino acids that can open up blood vessels throughout the body.
COMMENT: amino acids are found everywhere in foodstuffs - they don't help open up blood vessels - they do lots of things.

Semen Cuscutae
Cuscutae seed is used to treat impotence, premature ejaculation, frequent urination and sexual disinterest in males.
COMMENT: Who says it is used to treat impotence? - certainly can't find any reference to this in medical books or even in alternative remedy textbooks. What it is exactly? Tell me more - Semen = latin for seed. I suppose the word makes people think it is to do with sperm etc. No scientific value all at (and many herbs DO have a medical value)

Gingko
It improves the arterial inflow to erectile tissues through arteries and veins without any change to systemic blood pressure.
COMMENT: What the hell is gingko - who says it improves arterial flow? And how much is in each each pill anyway?

Yin yang huo (Herba Epimedii)
Research has shown this herb to increase male sperm count and semen density substantially. Herba Epimedii also expands the circulatory system’s blood vessels, while allowing hormone-enriched blood to penetrate sensitive tissues.
COMMENT: What the hell is Yin yang huo - what is this research? Again, how much is in the pill?

Hawthorn
Most definitely the best tonic for the heart and circulatory system. Has restorative and stimulating properties.
COMMENT: Best tonic? Well you try having a serious heart problem and just munch on a hawthorn bush - see you at your funeral.

Ginseng (Korean Red)
It improves the endocrine gland function and has a positive effect on the sex glands.
COMMENT: No proof of this

Catuaba
The most remarkable quality of Catuaba is in the area of treating functional impotence of the male genital organs. It is an innocent aphrodisiac, safe any highly effective for long term use.
COMMENT No proof of this either

Muira Pauma
This shrub is native to Brazil and has long been used as a powerful aphrodisiac and nerve stimulant in South American folk medicine.
COMMENT: OK You mention that some people have used this in folk medicine (I do not look down on that) but how do they use it? Do they eat it or rub it on - many of the effective tribal medicines (and they DO work) are actually APPLIED not swallowed. I think this is one of them. Again how much is in this tiny pill?

Zinc Gluconate
Testosterone, the most effective anabolic our bodies naturally produce, is known to be closely interrelated with zinc.
COMMENT: This is just plain wrong - the body needs a little zinc - or certain inbalance MIGHT take place - but zinc defiency is incredibly rare. More zinc does not equal better.

Most if not all the ingredients are dressed us real as effective drugs or herbs. Even if they did have any effect in the areas claimed (such as impotence) that is not the same as making your penis get BIGGER! Mumb-jumbo not even based on the alternative medical world and certainly not on medical fact. Notice also how the actual percentage/weight of each ingredient is NOT given. How much do the chinese (for example) give of that Ying-Yang stuff to treat a patient - a tiny bit or a whole bucket? This is total pseudo-scientific twaddle.

Geff

Pro-solution web page:
Only $78.95 for 1 bottle / 30 day supply
Thats 90 tiny pills - ok they need to make them and package them - but what with chalk needed to bind the the so-called ingredients there must be very little active ingredient - a newspaper reported that they cost around $3 to make. It's just a money making scam

Geff

Also look at those ingredients even IF they had the effect they say look at this way:

CARROTS contain a chemical which aids sight or rather keeps the eyes healthy - this is medical fact so:
If you are very short sighted will eating carrots make you see better? - no you have enough of the chemical already its just that you are short sighted.
Will eating a tiny essence of carrot help? No of course not. So why believe that a tiny anount of something that might (or might not) keep your boody healthy help make your penis bigger? Pretty obvious to anybody with a brain

Ok Peter, took one of your comments and random. Did a search on google for "gingko aterial flow," near the top were one CNN article and one extract from a medical trial:
http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/alternative/9908/06/gingko.heart/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10385132&dopt=Abstract


Game over.

gefff

From one of the sites CNN you mentioned above - with the heading:


MAY alleviate certain conditions


"Ginkgo biloba may act on the blood vessels to improve blood flow, which means the body can proceed with its natural way of fighting free radicals and healing itself of any damage. At the same time, the herb can possibly act as an antioxidant to neutralize free radicals, preventing them from damaging the body any further.

Ginkgo biloba has also been shown to help alleviate the symptoms of other ailments. By improving circulation, the herb can ease dizziness, migraine headaches and a perpetual ringing in the ears that doctors call tinnitus. Some people who take ginkgo biloba also experience an improvement in their breathing, which reduces the hardening of the arteries that arteriosclerosis causes. On top of that, many Americans use ginkgo, attempting to improve concentration and memory.

I have no argument with ll this BUT to increase the size of the PENIS? How much is in the pro-solution pills anyway. How much is needed - sounds from the article there is a lot of MAY and MAYBE all the way through - may work in the examples given above - but again, bigger penis NO! Game still on I'm afraid.

Simon

I have read the articles with which you defend the ingredients of these pills.

The approach of companies such as Pro-Solution is a well known plan, used for decades by sham pill merchants. They find some natural herbs or minerals (as "natural" sounds good) which MAY or sometimes do have some theraputic value in some areas. Then the pill merchants take a tiny amounts of these substances (if any) and put them together in a pill (with at least 50% filler). The cost of the pills is around $1 per hundred (probably less) with packaging adding another dollar or so to the cost for each pack

On their web site pro-solution Do mention the ingredients - but not how much. A trade secret? Well fair enough you might think. But with a packaged food (and certainly a "medicine" or anything consumed) sold in a shop the law says that they must tell us the breakdown of what is actually in them (just look at the back of a chocolate bar). That's why they sell these pills are sold on the internet - so you can't push them face to face and they can escape much regulation.


There is nothing wrong in herbal remedies, alternative medicine - but penis-pills are just a relic from the 19th century - when travelling salesmen used the same techniques, the same wild claims, preyed on people's fears, took their money and laughed all the way to the bank. Until civilisation and regulation caught up with them that is - this will come to the penis-pill people sooner or later. Many countries are moving in to regulate these bogus pills - NOT by banning them, but by making sure a) The ingredients are clearly labelled b) to stop them making wild claims c) Preventing them "advertising in a way which makes claims which might put fear into people." Further, most countries TV and billboard and magazine and newspaper advertisers have a code of conduct or even laws which specifically prevent products claiming that they increase the size of the sex organs/virility. fertility if they cannot do so. That's why the bogus pills merchants use the internet.


BY THE WAY: I've got a new idea which I could sell to the pill merchants! I've even done the advertising and written it in their style!

"Water: the elixir of life. Water has been proven to increase life expectency and keep the body from drying up like a dead leaf. BigMan pills contain de-hydrated water (0.01%) as you don't want your penis to look like a dead leaf, do you? See these articles to see how WATER can make you grow your penis...."

Geff

Like it Simon! Can I add:

"Yes grow your penis with WATER with SUPER-PENIS-GROW-PILLS. FACT: plants grow when they are watered
FACT: people are much healthier if they drink water
FACT: Your car cannot run without water
All these are true medical and scientific FACTS - see websites - THEREFORE my super penis pills are scientific and will increase your PENIS size by at least three inches - You see how big a sunflower gets when it is watered. FACT."

Super-Penis-Grow-Pills contain 0.0001% water the proven elixir of life and cost $80 a tub of 50, but only if you take 25 tubs will you start to see the benefits WATER can have on your penis.

Tee hee suckers!

Geff

Yes they are catching up with these pill scams: see this article- Other companies next:

http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/news/3361653.htm

Max

They've started clamping down already
Look at this site:

http://www.vig-rx.net/cssint11/

and see in little letters at the bottom the following warning - which is what ALL such sites SHOULD have (as do magazines, billboards:

"These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration.
This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease."

This says it all.


The pills do have an available list of active ingredients (as has been posted several times around the blog) but if you think that ingredient listings are ubiquitous, think again. Take a look at the next bottle of beer you drink. Herbal supplements of this sort are not intrinsically illegal -- now as to whether their advertising claims are valid, that's still up for discussion. As far as whether any number of these ingredients (which have been shown to improve circulation and arterial flow) could help effect increases in penis size, it's based on a pretty logical premis that the tissue can be expanded in part by stretching exercises alongside those which help get more blood in the vessels in the penis.
Really, much more detailed explanations of the theory behind penile tissue expansion techniques is available at a free site like thundersplace.com, which (except for banner ads like every site has) isn't trying to sell you anything. It's merely a forum for people to discuss these things and investigate just this sort of program.
Your overwhelming negativity is all based on assumptions and smoke. So far you've proven that some penis enlargement programs do not work well and that this hasn't been accepted by the medical establishment. The fact that the establishment isn't interested in and of itself is not conclusive to me -- just look back thirty years and see how many herbal remedies were accepted in general! Only three decades later the medical establishment is an order of magnitude more open to remedies which are not chemically synthesized, but this approach to medicine still has a long way to go. Now, assuming for a moment that these pills *can* contribute to a program of effective penis enlargement, is it so impossible to believe that the medical establishment's reluctance to embrace simple (cheaper?) herbal remedies in general combined with the extreme social stigma of this subject could lead to it not being pursued by researchers. It would not be the first time that an known treatment for some condition (not that wanting to increase your penis size necessarily is a condition needing treatment, but that's another matter) was not pursued for years. This is just assuming the pills would help penis enlargement -- assume they do and see if that argument makes sense. And remember your history. :)
Finally, I would say that this blog in particular is not going to lead me to draw any conclusions. If anything, the information at peforums.net and thundersplace.com would do that -- the jury is still out for me however. What bothers me is the posters here who are relying on ad hominem arguments and logical fallacies. Pointing at each ingredient and saying "ha ha ha" doesn't help honestly determine whether these pills can improve blood flow in general or in the penis in particuar.

Max

Your response is well tempered - thank you at least for that!

But the medical profession (at least the thinking ones)do not always laugh at "alternative" medicines (including herbs): certainly if they work or even if they are promising - and some natural things do work! Indeed Aspirin and so many drugs are based on a natural product!

And yes it is true that some doctors and the drug companies are out to make money - some more than others! But what the hell do you think the penis pill people are doing - a charity? It is a multi-million dollar business - you really should not compare the medical profession (some of whom ARE money grabbing individuals) with the penis pill people (who are ALL out to make money: every single one - if they were not so money grabbing , the pills would be sold at just $10 a packet to cover costs and a reasonable amount of profit!)

You seem to ignore the point made above that the ingredients MAY have some benefit to the human body - but the manufacturers of the pills make the false connection between possible general benefit (perhaps, I accept, real) and penis enlargement! And we still do not know how much of these "magic" substances are in the pills - very litle I would guess. The WATER joke above is a perfect example of how these bogus pill people attempt to distort the facts. I repeat: water is good for you (FACT) - "my pills contains water", THEREFORE my pills will do what I say they will! A false connection and a scam!

I'm afraid that your willingness to believe or rather "hope" that these pills will work is part of a phenonema which has passed from the treatment of most ailments or perceived problems. Nobody in their right mind would believe anyone selling herbs which claimed to cure the blind - (some eye problems are alleviated by drugs - but I mean the really blind, no eyes etc.) Such remedies are the stuff of 19th century fairgrounds! But with penis pills (the last bastion of quack remedies) enough gullable people are willing to throw their money away.

And what I find particulary repulsive about the Pro-solution page is the section on how important it is to have a big penis for the woman - when genuine studies (not just what you call money grabbing doctors) have shown that love, technique, and personality are what really matters! Perhaps their page (and this) would be better given over to discussion regarding technique (yes, in bed) and how to be nice to women and attract them... I personally do not have a big penis - quite a small one in fact - I DID worry about it! Yes I admit it! But I have a great sense of humour and have grown in confidence (NOT in penis size) my sex life is superb - some people with small penises have terrible sex lives, but then again some people with huge monsters in their pants have terrible sex lives. However big/small your penis is you can have problems or paradise! Perhaps less time and money buying these bogus pills might be better spent on cleaning up your apartment, getting some simple, cheap but classy clothes, being gentle, learning to cook fancy food, sorting out that record collection, buying some nice candles and taking a lovely woman home - most of whom don't give a damn about the size of your penis!

But of course a "solution" is not what is on offer - what is on offer is selling a few dollars worth of bogus pills for a lot of money! Can't you see that?

What I'd like to see is a large-scale, impartial, and well-documented study on the contents and effectiveness of these products. You (or at least I) would think that considering the immense amount of money that is earned and spent on these products, researchers at one university or another would pick this up and settle things. When I reflect on the fact that this has not happened yet, I have to wonder. And so here we are. Even if it is an embarassing facet of male psychology, it's pretty widespread so since it's quite clear how ridiculous the concept is (to some people, it seems) why not put the issue to rest?
That's what's really needed. But until that happens, I'm going to stand by my statement that an unusual social stigma is attached to this entire subject and the medical profession seems to be almost entirely in its sway.

Max

Studies on the effectiveness of herbal remedies continue - one of the reasons experiments do continue is because drug companies are interested! If these multi-billion dollar companies cannot find the herbs to work then nobody can - there is no better incentive for the big drugs companies than MONEY! So they WANT new things to work - honestly they will look anywhere for something to SELL. What they would do is this: they would discover than Ying-Yang or whatever it is called CAN increase penis size (after a real trial so they don't get sued)and then they would patent it in a "special formula" and THEY would push it and sell it! The reason they have not of course discovered their own penis pill is simple - some of the herbs mentioned above DO have thereputic value - in proper amounts for certain conditions. This is the smokescreen used by the bogus pill manufacturers! They pick up on something which may have some value and then make the false connection between that and the particular problem they wish to solve: in this case getting a bigger penis. You can substitute any ailment/problem - they could have "bigger breast pills" and so on...

Your logic regarding the medical profession is flawed. In one breath they are described as money grabbing (sometimes true) but why on earth would the majority have doubts about the bogus pills? Just ask what would happen if someone went to their doctor and said: "I want a bigger penis." The doctor might just say - "whatever you do do not waste your money on those pills on the internet." The patient would ask: "Well then doctor, can you make my penis bigger?" The doctor's answer would of course be no (unless the patient had a really serious mico-penis which requires surgery or the doctor WAS a money grabbing plastic surgeon). There is therefore NO financial gain for the normal general practioner in saying the bogus pills are useless. He has nothing to offer instead - there would be no money to make even if he wanted to!

The fact that these bogus pills sell so much is because there is no pill that can make a penis bigger - as I say the drugs companies would be making millions if they were. I repeat: don't you think they would be cornering the market, selling hard (so to speak!). Hasn't it dawned on you yet why the bogus pill merchants must sell by the internet, why most companies cannot be contacted, why they do not give the actual amounts of their ingredients. And why penis pills? Well you have mentioned the reason: it is a personal area of life! People will feel ashamed to complain if they feel they are being ripped off! It is a perfect marketing strategy and one that has been followed by con=merchants for centuries. Just trying standing in a court room to sue these people! "Hey man I've got a tiny penis!" "Look I'm so gullable I sent $500 dollars to a strange company who sold me useless pills..." - so it's a double whammy: you have to declare that you have a small penis (or so you think) AND you were stupid enough to get ripped off! Not going to happen much is it?

Still nobody has provided the actual amount of these ingredients in a pro-solution pill

max

A blip in my last but one paragraph should read:

The fact that these bogus pills sell so much is strangely because there is no pill that can make a penis bigger so they have to make it look like there is and they have to be very clever at pushing them - as I say the drugs companies would be making millions if they were.

max

And one last thing: the claims made by pro-solution are so outlandish and the marketing so obviously a money spinning scam that why should a university even think of spending $$$ to test them in depth. And let's face it, even if a hundred top universities tested them for years and found them useless - you wouldn't believe them, claiming some conspiract theory. You want to believe - and so you will. I agree that ests SHOULD be done by trading standards organisation (as they did with other pills in the Texas bust - where it was found there was virtually nothing in the pills anyway). But get real, these pills are so obviously a scam; you wouldn't need tests to know that: example - I will market a pill that claims to grow back amputated limbs - it is made of ying-yang. You would think I were mad! And I wonder why the drugs companies are not selling it if it works? Get real....

Two final points:

1) I would not claim some conspiracy theory if studies proove these or other comparable products useless. I also don't believe the earth is flat or that the sun orbits the earth. I'm here merely because this is *very* interesting to me.

2) I think I've used the phrase "social stigma" enough times that you should know that I feel that the medical profession, educators, researchers, and the public in general are extremely hesitant to venture into this topic because of the tremendous social stigma attached to it. Our culture has become fixated on the notion that 'size doesn't matter.' Almost no one in the medical profession is going to suggest any kind of procedure or regimen that is purely cosmetic -- which penis enlargement undoubtably is (with the exception of micropenis, which we've covered). With the additional 'size doesn't matter' and other, more general stigmas regarding reproductive health in general, it is a straightforward matter to see why this remains the realm of the pill hawkers and scam artists, regardless of whether or not there is some value to it.

I'm not suggesting there's a conspiracy, or that it boils down to some convoluted greed on the behalf of medical practitioners. I'm saying that this is culturally a very charged subject and I feel that stigma has been a big stumbling block (and from some posts like these, continues to be) for most people.


Consider the recent phenomena of naysayer comments on this blog. If all of you had read all the way back, this ground has long been covered. (By that I mean proven effectiveness, lack of support from the medical industry, the extremely dubious nature of this blog and the product it's purporting to be based on)
Yet several people feel compelled to doggedly rain gloom and doom and tell everyone things that are already apparent. Yes, I think that most people realize what the implications of these drugs not being found in a pharmacy are. And the preposterous selling tactics of penis enlargement companies (and more significanly, their affiliate sites and spammers) are unavoidable to anyone who's spent significant time on the internet. Think about some of the considerations I've mentioned regarding the role social inibitions could play in the medical profession, read some better (sorry regular guy....) testimonials/experiences at thundersplace.com and please consider only *proven scientific evidence,* or, since little of that is available, the broad range of anecdotal experiences with penis enlargement.

I will try my best not to make any of these lengthy posts in the future... I think everything I could possibly say about the subject has been covered at one point or other in this thread already... heh...

max

Your response is considered and thoughtful. I really do appreciate that.
My final word on this is only to add that my strong outbursts are mainly driven by the fact that the sponsor here (pro-solution) is making thousands, millions even of $$$$ and £££, yen and so on. Just look at their page and press the link in tiny letters at the bottom of the page - where you can have their pills with YOUR label so you can sell them- most of the page is concerned with HOW TO SELL and how to sell BIGTIME. Very very hard sell!

And the "size doesn't matter thing" is an important debate. In my country 95% of health care is state funded. The state WILL pay for cosmetic surgery on the face or elsewhere, because health practioners do accept that appearance DOES matter. The serious profession DOES take into account these things and knows it matters. And size of the penis is a difficult subject. But look at it this way:

If you knew a woman with tiny but natural breasts - in fact lovely little breasts. She is a lovely person and everyone likes her. In fact men like her and want her! But she has a thing about her breasts. She has surgery and implants. Fair enough - that makes HER feel better; but was she "right?" Is it not fair to point out that she may (and I say "may") be wrong, her "breast problem" needed sorting out, not physically but mentally - just at least so that she knows that the problem may not really be a problem. As I have said before I know people who have huge penises (and I have seen them in the shower after sport!) and yet some have terrible sex lives, some have great sex lives. And of course the opposite applies - tiny penis can bring problems with certain women but only a minority. Example: if you have a terrible car (autombile), a really cheap old wreck, some women will laugh at you! But many nice women will ignore your crappy car - and look at YOU - genuinely so, not because they are being polite, but because they really do not care about your choice of transport! Same with the PENIS - confidence, being nice and thoughtful, dressing cleanly and smartly, having a sense of humour, etc.etc. are all PROVEN techniques to attract women - not some bogus herbs in a sham pill,

Let's imagine that you have a giant penis having taken these pills. You still have to "pleasure" your existing partner or if you are "single" find a woman - that's where the fun starts. Let's see what type of woman you would get if your chat-up line is "I've now got a massive penis" - most decent women would run away in horror - "you dirty bastard."

The secret is to be CONFIDENT - that's a difficult task - confident in yourself (big or small penis) - so even if these pills worked (impossible) you still have to do the real work - getting a life not obsessed with the size of a sex organ.

And I speak from experience - having rid myself of a complex regarding penis size. I am a single father, my wife died in childbirth - after a year or two of grieving I couldn't get a girlfriend - I do not have a big penis - I thought that was the problem! Only when I discovered that the secret is to go out, to be great company, to laugh, to have achieved something in life (even if something very minor), did I start meeting and impressing women - and discovered they don't give a damn about your penis. Some do, I suppose, but who wants to know someone who only wants you for that! I am forty-two years old (NOT attractive) with a small penis - but I am a great lover - stroking, kissing and considerate - a "big-head"? well I don't care: I am confident because I try to make a partner happy. I leave you with one quote from my current partner on our second date:

"So good to have someone caring. Someone who is not a body builder with a huge thing [that's the word she used!] just banging away! Great meal, gentle caring love-making - so good to meet someone who cares..."

Penis size? Who cares?

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About

  • I am just a regular guy from New York City who wanted a larger penis.

    I've been blogging about my experience because I couldn't find any credible, non-spam-sounding review sites online. Hopefully my experience will shed some light on the subject. My promise to you the reader is that I will be honest: if the pills don't do their job, I will say so.

    This blog is about my personal experience with penis enlargement pills. Your mileage may vary.

    Contact me if you have any questions. Please read the FAQ first, though.
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